Welcome back to Turntable Talk! Thanks to all the regular readers and welcome to any new ones. If you’re keeping count, this is our 11th instalment! But for new readers, briefly, on Turntable Talk we have a number of guest columns from other music fans and writers, sounding off on one particular topic. This month, our topic is A Really Big Show. We’ve asked our guests if they had a time machine, and could go back and see one concert what would it be? It could be a show from before they were born, one tey missed or one they actually attended and would like to relive. Big festival, small club show, you name it.
Today we have Max from the Power Pop Blog. There he recently put up his 3000th post, most of which have looked at music he loves, often from bands who indeed define “power pop”. Would his dream concert follow suit?:
Dave at A Sound Day gave writers a question to write about: If you could safely go back in time and move about for one day, what one concert or live performance would you choose to go to?
Well, that narrows it down to me because there are two cities that come to mind after he asked that. Now…if this was a baseball question I would go to New York in the twenties and see who I think is the best baseball player ever…Babe Ruth. But it’s music so the two cities are Hamburg and Liverpool…the Star Club in Hamburg or the Cavern in Liverpool…and I shouldn’t have to name the band.
I’m going to pick Hamburg…and the reason is The Beatles would play 6-8 hours a night compared to lunchtime sessions at the Cavern so to Germany I go! From everything I’ve read the performances there were off the charts. They played loud sweaty rock and roll there and accumulated way past 1000 hours playing there in a 3-year stretch. It’s not a stretch to say at that time they could have had more hours on a stage than any other rock band.
Between August 1960 and December 1962, the Beatles played over 250 nights in the seedy red-light district of Hamburg. If you average 6 hours a show that would be 1500 hours…that is why they could play so well with a wall of screaming in their ears later on. They would get to know the gangsters who would buy them champagne, the barmaids who would sell or give them Preludin (a type of diet pill speed so they could play all night…”prellies”), and the prostitutes who would take them in and befriend them. They also met Little Richard, Billy Preston, and Gene Vincent there.
They slowed down in 1962 and didn’t play as long of sets but near the end they had Ringo. I would want to see them in 1960-61 when Stuart Sutcliffe was on bass and Pete Best was drumming. Other bands from England started to come over but none of them had the impact of the Beatles. They lived off of prellies and beer when they played and would go have an English breakfast when they could afford it. There are pictures of them holding a Preludin metal tube (what they came in) and grinning manically. They would write a few songs but mostly played covers through this period of learning. They caused all kinds of trouble and there were rumors of John Lennon urinating off of a balcony on nuns…but that has been disproven…no he did urinate off of balconies but left the nuns alone. He once appeared with a real toilet seat around his head on stage after being angered and ripping it off a toilet. George was booted out of the country for being underaged and Paul and Pete were accused of trying to burn down a cinema. Stuart Sutcliffe found his true love there Astrid Kirchherr. He would die in 1962 of a brain hemorrhage at 22.
When they came back from Hamburg in 1960 to Liverpool…people were amazed and at first thought, they were a German band with their all leather clothes. They were a sensation because they played like no one else. Without Hamburg…there would probably be no Beatles. After they got back they started to play the Cavern regularly and the promoters were wary of them because of their reputation but soon knew they would make them a lot of money. They were NOT the grinning mop-tops that the world came to love. They were rough and tough growing up in Liverpool with further education in Hamburg. Often after shows in Liverpool, they would have to fight because of the rough audiences being jealous of their girlfriends who were fawning over them.
Well, that was long-winded…but Hamburg in 1961… is where I want Dave’s time machine to take me. I might hijack it and make another trip to the Cavern if Dave is not watching. So what is the saying about rock music? Sex, drugs, and Rock and Roll? This probably helped that saying along.
There are some low-fi recordings of them in Hamburg in 1962 with Ringo drumming which shows how stripped down and raw they were.
Thanks Max! I wondered when someone would get around to The Beatles. Those who saw them in Germany certainly saw a piece of history. I wonder how many ( or few) had an inkling they were seeing a band that was going to be huge? Anyway, four or five hours of them rockin’, up close to John, Paul & George…lots to like. Wonder if there was anything to look at in there if you got bored with staring at the lads…
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They were almost instantly popular there because no one had heard anything like them before…at least that is what people say in interviews.
“Wonder if there was anything to look at in there if you got bored with staring at the lads…” Gangsters, hoods, sailors on leave, prostitutes… yea I would say it would be entertaining at least.
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Man they did some serious time in Germany Max. No wonder they had the musical chops as they became a well oiled machine by the time they took over North America! Plus they were doing some kind of Axl Rose earl 1990’s behaviour off stage as well lol….
Poor Stu man…..and Pete for that matter
Great stuff Max
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Thanks dude…They were a wild bunch no doubt. The image of the Beatles and Stones probably should be flipped in a lot of ways. An author said that The Beatles were probably the most experienced rock band iin the world at the time…I thought that was crazy until I thought about it. It wasn’t a lof of rock bands around at that time…until they came over for an American visit.
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That was a lot of hours on stage and practising. I commented to someone else a few days back, Malcolm Gladwell champions the idea that people who are truly great in a discipline, artistic, sports, business, you name it, need about 10 000 hours of practise to become brilliant at it, and he used them as an example. His math was off – even if they played six hours a night for those 250 or so shows, and half that at the Cavern Club, it adds up to maybe 2500 hours. But that’s still a LOT… and probably, who knows, four, five times more than any of their contemporaries.
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Yes it is alot but also remember…you would have to count The Cavern….they played 292 shows just there…not counting the constant gigs around Europe and mostly Liverpool. It probably would not be 10,000 though…but like you said…for music that is a lot!
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They certainly learned there chops by playing that much..
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Nice pick Max.
I’ve spent a lot of time in Hamburg it’s a cool city and that district (St Pauli) is still lively!
I would also add Klaus Voormann as one of the more interesting people they met in Hamburg. A member of the Plastic Ono band, he would go on to play on Lennon’s Imagine, Harrison’s All Things Must Pass and Ringo’s solo albums.
He was a bass player so I guess McCartney had no need for him!
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I’ve read where Voormann offered himself as bass player at some point but Paul had just taken it over by then…so that would have changed a lot. I also have to wonder what would have happened to Stu if he would have lived…he was a really good artist. Definately some album covers anyway lol.
I would love to go there and visit…and since my son has been dating a German for a couple of years…that could happen one day.
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Get yourself over there Max, Hamburg is very cool, you’ll love it!
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I already told Bailey, my son…we are going there. He didn’t make it to Hamburg last time…just to Berlin.
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maybe so! Didn’t you say he’d gone to a Beatles museum when he went there?
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Yes but in Maria’s hometown…he said it was mostly advertising things…not personal things from them….Hamburg is where you would see things they had or used I believe.
I take that back…he did say they had John Lennon’s spoon…how they knew it was Lennon’s I don’t know lol.
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I knew it would be Beatles but not sure where or when. Excellent write-up setting the stage so to speak of their Hamburg experiences. I had no idea about the speed they were taking but having to perform so many lengthy concerts over years I should have guessed. Good find on the pic with the metal tubes! They probably wore leather to protect their skin from people throwing stuff or fights they got into.
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Thanks Lisa! They went through so much together that you can see why they broke up when they did. They all slept in the same rooms at first in Hamburg and after that paired off. They were always together in one form or another.
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You’re welcome, Max and understand that they weren’t destined to remain together.
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probably be like some of those old baseball teams before our time, ones where the roster didn’t change much year to year and where they traveled by bus, slept two to a room in hotels.
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Yea that was it…the first year though…all of them were in one room by the cinema. Paul said it was completely gross as none of them ever cleaned up…typical male teens lol.
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All those hours honing the music- when it all went screaming Beatlemanic its no wonder the four were able to deal with the intrusions of fame better than most would have. They were a unit.
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I can see why they thought of each other like brothers…while other bands had a long lifespan like the Stones…I always thought the Stones were more like business partners and The Beatles more like family…and that won’t last forever…you start taking things personal in families.
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I know what ya did there! I once spent detailed paragraphs answering a comment only to find I i was not even on the comment reply. box. I got blisters on my fingers!
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I know… I HATE when I do that! I hope Dave deletes it. HEY DAVE delete the other one please! Thanks obbverse
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done! I hadn’t even noticed it was duplicated first time I scanned through the comments.
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Thanks…I was an idiot. I think I hit reply and then left the page and came back and started to type.
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no worries. That type of thing happens easily here. Or you hit send and seems like nothing is happening and hit it again and get some error message about ‘looks like you already posted that’ or something.
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The other thing…you and I don’t do it but people who moderate…you will type in a comment and you can’t see it…so you think it didn’t take it and type it in again…well after they approve it …you have two comments there.
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I enjoyed that descriptive trip to Hamburg, and the recording. I really haven’t known anything about their time there, other than the mainstream information–who, what, when, where. They were basically performing like it was a 40-hour week job with overtime. Ringo and Paul today are still the consummate showmen and personalities, which I suspect all comes down to the habits they built in Hamburg.
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They did work hard in the Beatles. The conditions the first time they went were horrible. They slept on the other side of the wall of a cinema…so when they showed a movie with guns and bombs…sleep wasn’t an option. They grew up fast there but not always in a good way. Thanks for reading!
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Yes. I think you’re onto something. As much as they liked to party and have tons of fun, they were workers…’Eight Days a Week’ if you will. I think, unfortunately that work ethic slips a bit with every generation, and I admit by and large us Gen X’s didn’t match the War era or boomers for that… but we sure outdo the Millennials and don’t get me started on Generation Zzzzz….
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As the decades roll forward, there does seem to be less emphasis on developing your skills and proving yourself, and more on getting your worth. There’s a balance to strike between those two concepts if you want to become successful, imo. You may give up a little bit of value at first, but dividends should follow from it. (My advice to no one listening. 😀 )
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Not many new Beatles coming along, or even Kansas’s or Echo & the Bunnymen’s…bands that worked hard for years , playing & writing songs to get a record deal and kept getting better (for at least some time). Today it’s more about your look & Instagram or TikTok followers & becoming an Andy Warhol 15-minute type star the first year you see a recording studio.
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Agreed. I think the talent contest shows contributed as well. Many of those contestants have worked hard for years, but all viewers see is the contest and then ‘instant’ worldwide fame.
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Very true!
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Can’t say I’m surprised you picked The Beatles either, nice write up. Can you imagine bands today putting in that time and hard work?
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No I couldn’t…it has to be instant these days.
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Different times I suppose. There are lots of great little tidbits in there, some of the antics they got up to you mentioned I hadn’t heard about before.
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You probably already know about this book…but Tune In by Mark Lewiston is by far the best book on the Beatles…no the best book on a rock band period to me…it only covers until 1963…I can’t wait for the next one.
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hmm, I might look that up. I think I’ve heard of it but never seen it. Next one… is he doing a series on the Beatles, or a series on different groups?
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Yes….as an audio book…it’s 44 hours long and ONLY goes to 1963. Yea every Beatles fan is pestering him to death to finish. He interviewed many people about their early days and many of those are dead now…so I’m glad he got them. It is detailed…that is why Beatle fans loves it. You can’t get any better unless you lived it.
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Actually no I didn’t!
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It’s the true Beatles Bible… I can’t wait til the next one comes out… he is doing three altogether… the next one should cover 64-66 or 7… the first one was a 44 hour audio book and the book I believe is a 1000 pages
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Are you suggesting Rihanna didn’t put hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours of work into prepping her lip-synching performance at the Super Bowl? LOL
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Not going there 😬
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A wise man!
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I hoped someone would pick a Beatles show – and I hoped it would be you! I can’t imagine playing 6-8 hours a night!! When I think about that, I think of John’s vocal on Twist and Shout and how raw it was. Fantastic write up and great pick!!
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When I played in the early nineties at a club…we would start at 8 and play til 3 in the morning…dude it was more tiring than working all day in a factory.
Thank you Keith!
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Wow. Funny eh, the big names who make big money probably play two hour shows, three if they’re named ‘Springsteen’. But many bar bands do grind away for more than one set that long per night. Mind you, most of those ‘names” paid their dues doing the same at one time.
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You have to…from prime time to closing time with 45 minute sets and 15 minute breaks…give or take a little on both the sets and breaks.
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That Max would pick The Beatles pretty much was a forgone conclusion to me. The only question was which show!😀
If I had picked a Beatles concert, I probably would have taken Hamburg as well. Because as intriguing as their appearances at Shea Stadium and the Hollywood Bowl were, I’m not sure I would have enjoyed all the insanely screaming fans around me. I imagine they largely drowned out the music!😀
Hamburg, as gruesome as it was for the boys in many regards, was the perfect apprenticeship for what was to come. I also recall John Lennon during an interview sometime after their breakup said The Beatles played their best music, “real rock & roll”, during their Hamburg days. Of course, John could be pretty dismissive about The Beatles after they had dissolved.
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funny you mention all that because I touch on that tomorrow myself – love the Beatles, wouldn’t have especially wanted to be at Shea (poor sound quality) or at the Apple roof show (on the ground, you saw almost nothing and there was all the city noise to compete.)
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John was right about the live pure rock and roll stuff…and the rawness…and it would have been great to see and hear them…and that atmosphere. They grew up rather fast there!
The only thing I wouldn’t have like was that they hardly played originals.
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that went into my thinking too- would have been historic to see them up close like that, but probably only one or two (at most) ‘Beatles’ songs.
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You would see them developing… into what they became. Those harmonies would have been great as well.
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At least, you probably would have heard them. While I’m sure the Star-Club audience wasn’t exactly a quiet crowd, I just can’t imagine it was as crazy as Beatlemania at the Hollywood Bowl!
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Yes you would have heard them very loud. It was probably the opposite of Beatlemania…people ignoring them while conking each other over the head with that crowd.
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